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Talk:Sternlichter
Um... Hey Ten, cool article and all but ah... these basically are the exact same thing as the four "elite" Sternritter that Wolf and I have listed on the Sternritter article, as in they had the exact same role. If you'd like to talk about how it works that's fine, but I'd like for you to bring these sorts of article proposals to either me or him before you make them, since the Wandenreich is still technically our domain of the Fanon Canon. Yeeeeeah! Now it's a party! (talk) 04:19, December 21, 2014 (UTC) : This will only take effect after you guys loose the Wandenreich as your domain. I realize they're the same. It was meant that way. When Zinnia takes over, this replaces the elite Ritters. A king can never be too paranoid. 04:37, December 21, 2014 (UTC) : No no, you don't understand. The Sternritter and Wandenreich page we had set up was made ready for when we made a proper king to rule it, or when a user brought one to our attention that fit the requirements, as Zinnia has. The four elite we have now were intended to be the four elite from the get-go, the guards of the king, the executors of the defectors, all of that stuff, and they all had important roles in the stories to come. Basically what I'm saying is that Zinnia is king, and the Wandenreich we had set up before hand is the one that forms around him. If you want a slot for one of the Elites (I'll make one available), just hit me up on the forums here: http://bleachfanfiction.wikia.com/wiki/Board:Fanon_Canon_-_Sternritter_Applications Yeeeeeah! Now it's a party! (talk) 04:47, December 21, 2014 (UTC) :: To further elaborate, I don't recall myself or Wolf for that matter leasing our domain on the Wandenreich at any point in time. Of course, allowing Zinnia to be the King of the Wandenreich gave you say over the Wandenreich as well, but even with that in mind, we need to reach consensus on matters as important as the Four Elite (I don't use the term Sternlichter), as they were each meant to be individual Quincy owned by different authors, allowing for important decisions and meetings between the four of them and their king to reflect the collaborative nature of the Fanon Canon, just like the other factions. Simply pushing the set Elite Four (three at the moment, one's article hasn't even been made yet), articles, of which so far have had a ton of work put into them in order to demonstrate why they are the elite, aside to replace them with entirely new characters (all of which I assume would be owned and controlled by you) I feel undermines that effort, and I'd even go as far as to say that it's unfair to the other users as well. So no, I'm not on board with this idea, and again, I would have preferred that you brought this proposition to me first, either here or on facebook or wherever else we contact each other with, before you make the page. If you wouldn't mind, we could discuss this tomorrow night, as I'm fighting to stay awake at the moment. Yeeeeeah! Now it's a party! (talk) 07:00, December 21, 2014 (UTC) ::: The very second you decided to make a third user King of the Wandenreich, you leased a third of your domain. Secondly, you should refrain from playing politics with me, Blank. You and Wolfe may have made the decision, but when you made that decision without a king, you made a poor one. You yourself noted the political division that would occur if Zinnia's goals, as the king of the Quincy, were pursued and also noted that Asumu — who is so far the only Sternritter marked "elite" as far as the article is concerned — was among the many Quincy who might dissent with his ambitions. Therefore, it does not make an sense, politically or practically, for a king to place one of his ideological opponents and a potential dissenter among his elite guards: Quincy that have the utmost access to him. A king, as Yhwach and history dictates, would only pick his most staunch supporters. There's the first problem with that plan: the king should have been selected first, then the "elite". ::: Secondly, its much less of a big deal than you're making it out to be. Regardless of what was set up prior, Zinnia will be instituting the Sternlichter in one form or another. They don't have to be his personal guard to exist. But that would be tedious, so here is my proposal for a compromise and a truce: the "elite Sternritter" will be called "Sternlichter". You can list them on the Sternritter page if it really matters that much, but seeing as I have not created any characters for this page, we can simply move the chosen elite (which currently consists of only your character, if the Sternritter page is to be believed) up to the Sternlichter page, change a few of the "History" details and it is exactly like the way you and Wolfe set it up, only now the elite have a name (which they should. "Elite Sternritter" makes no sense: Kubo's fault, not yours). I was planning on making one of the elite, which I shall continue to do so. This way, everyone gets what they want, and no one's undergarments get tied in a knot. 20:36, December 21, 2014 (UTC) :::: I assume you didn't notice it, but on the main Sternritter page the Elite are all marked with an asterisk, in addition to Asumu, there's my Hanzel, Wolf's Willard Wundermittel and I presume the character that you've got in the works. Anyway, I honestly think this is a silly thing to argue about and the best solution is to adapt the "Elite" into the Sternlichter. Alternatively, we could keep both the Elite and the Sternlichter. The elite might aid him in the governance, but that doesn't mean they need to be his personal guard, nor does it mean that the Sternlichter even need to be more powerful, why would someone like Zinnia even need a royal guard in the first place? It seems to me that it'd be more symbolic than anything else. At any rate, as King, Zinnia does have the power to form the Sternlichter if he wishes, that's after all the whole point of the role. I'd also like to state that the Wandenreich and Sternritter articles belong to the fanon canon, and no one should try to claim personal ownership over them at this point. --Njalm (talk) 21:21, December 21, 2014 (UTC) N is entirely on point here. Zinnia really doesn't need a personal guard. They're not there to "protect" him, even though that is part of their job description. They're mainly there to exterminate his enemies when he's busy doing other things, or to handle opponents in a more covert manner than the Sternritter. So really, we have two options: # Merge the Sternlichter and the four "elites", listing Asumu and the other elites on this page, and basically nothing changes except the elite are now called "Sternlichter" rather than Sternritter. # Conversely, we keep them separate, and the "elite" Sternritter are still elites, and the Sternlichter will still remain an organization and I will slightly modify their purpose to ensure that they're not the same organization done twice. As N pointed out, the king makes these decisions. It's kind of his job. I don't want to argue, nor step on the work other users have spent so much time putting together, so either option would serve to keep that alive, but deciding on the "king's elite" before you actually had a king was a poor move both politically, from an in-universe perspective, and practically, from an out-of-universe perspective, because a king should choose his inner circle: not the inner circle choose their king. 21:38, December 21, 2014 (UTC) Cool cool, the first option you listed works perfectly. And I apologize for getting too defensive over the issue; it's not something to get worked up over. Yeeeeeah! Now it's a party! (talk) 05:26, December 22, 2014 (UTC)